Additional Links On Wikipedia's proposals to delete Robert Muller articles
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Wikipedia Decision Making Notes - Robert Muller Article
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Muller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Robert_Muller
Here
is Wikipedia's decision making process on Robert's Article.
- Robert Muller (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log • Stats)
- (Find sources: "Robert Muller" – news · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images)
No evidence that Muller meets the
notability criteria. The article on
Under-Secretary-General of the United Nations states
Assistant
Secretaries-General are often deputies within Departments or
Programmes, reporting to their respective Under-Secretary-General -
this would not appear to be sufficiently high enough to be inherantly
notable, and Muller does not appear to meet notability on other grounds.
Apart from the Star-News coverage for his obit, the other coverage I
could find is minor (along the "Muller, former ASG will be talking at a
meeting", kind of thing).
PhantomSteve/
talk|
contribs\ 20:04, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
- Postscript: Incidentally, the two other references do not appear to meet the criteria for establishing notability. The New York Open Centre Honorees reference has his name, but that is linked to the Wikipedia article; the NAPF
reference does include his biography, but this in itself is not
sufficient to show notability. The entirety of the references do not add
up to notability. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 20:15, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 20:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:36, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
- Keep Robert Muller's entry - it is being updated. There is plenty of information that shows Robert Muller is a notable person.
- Shortly before the page was designated for deletion almost all
contents had been removed with an insufficient explanation. "Removing
puffery/CV style writing” doesn't explain anything.
- We don't understand why the following information that was on the page before:
- Robert Muller was born March 11, 1923 in Weismes Belgium, raised in the Alsace-Lorraine region in France.
- During his youth he experienced constant political and cultural
turmoil. Robert Muller knew the horrors of World War II, of being a
refugee, of Nazi occupation and imprisonment. During the war he was a
member of the French Resistance. After the war he returned home and
earned a Doctorate of Law from the University of Strasbourg. In 1948 he
entered and won an essay contest on how to govern the world, the prize
of which was an internship at the newly created United Nations.
- Dr. Muller devoted the next 40 years of his life behind the
scenes at the United Nations focusing his energies on world peace. He
rose through the ranks at the UN to the official position of
Assistant-Secretary-General. He has been called the "Philosopher" and
"Prophet of Hope" of the United Nations.
- Robert Muller created a "World Core Curriculum" and is known
throughout the world as the "father of global education." There are 29
Robert Muller schools around the world with more being established each
year. The "World Core Curriculum" earned him the UNESCO Prize for Peace
Education in 1989.
- During Dr. Muller's active "retirement" he was Chancellor of the
University for Peace created by the United Nations in demilitarized
Costa Rica. He is the recipient of the Albert Schweitzer International
Prize for the Humanities and the Eleanor Roosevelt Man of Vision Award.
- In addition to his duties at the University, he devoted time to
his writings and was an internationally acclaimed, multi-lingual speaker
and author of fourteen books published in various languages.
- At the prompting of many of his friends, admirers and
non-governmental organizations Robert Muller was a candidate as a global
citizen in 1996 for the post of Secretary General of the United
Nations.
- Robert Muller died September 20, 2010. ”
- was replaced with this:
- Robert Muller (born 1923 in Belgium, died September 20, 2010) was
an international civil servant with the United Nations. Assistant
Secretary-General for 40 years, his ideas about world government, world
peace and spirituality led to the increased representation of religions
in the UN, especially of New Age Movement. He was known by some as "the
philosopher of the United Natons"@@
- The removed text was substantial and filled in essential information
about Robert and his life. What was put in its place is not a fair
description of Robert Muller.
- We don't understand, either, what was the reason for removing the
list of the books and references and only keeping two of them and not
the rest?
- What was the reason not to at least keep some of the text that was on the page?
- We would like to enter some information back without “puffery”. We
will add more references to better demonstrate Robert Mullers
notability. The short info about Robert is essential and the list of the
books published by Robert helps demonstrate Robert's notability.
Additional references will also add to citations of Robert's notability.
A more fair decision can be made with this additional material.
- Here are some links to websites in support of the claim that Robert Muller is a notable person:
- Thank you for helping us provide more substantial information to demonstrate Robert Muller is a notable person.Kaczdan (talk) 17:30, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for that, a quick reply (I've been awake for the last 38
hours, and need to get to sleep!) In my opinion, the removal of the
material from the article was quite correct - the content was
unencylopedic, and "puffery" in nature. I note that you have said
"we..." a lot - you are obviously representing someone, presumably the
Muller organisation - and would appear to want to use Wikipedia to
promote the (worthy) values of Muller. That is not Wikipedia's purpose.
- The references you provided do not demonstrate adequately (in my
opinion) the notability of Muller. They are either personal opinion
pieces (such as the UN Memorial speech), or from sources which would not
appear to meet the independence requirement or reliability requirement:
- Secretary-General's remarks at Memorial Service for Robert Muller
- Personal opinion, from the organisation he was connected with (the UN). Not an independent source
- Good Morning World Blog
- Muller's own blog, this is a memorial wall. Not an independent source, and blogs are generally not considered reliable sources
- Goi Peace Foundation
- An organisation with no article (Goi, Goi Peace Foundation) on Wikipedia, and no indication that either the organisation or their awards are recognised as conferring notability
- World Harmony Run
- An organisation whose article World Harmony Run
I have proposed for deletion, as I see no evidence that it is notable
enough for inclusion on Wikipedia, or as a reliable source here
- East Beach
- As the publisher of some of Muller's works, they are not
independent. Also, the bio here seems to be the bio found elsewhere for
Muller - presumably a standard one issued by Muller/Muller's
organisation - similar to a press release in effect, and so not
independent
- UN Online article
- Written by Muller (so not independent) on a Robert Muller Schools International websiet
- Peace Pilgrim
- 2 short paragraphs mention him in a total of 4 sentences - not the
quantity/quality of coverage required ("Robert Muller, former assistant
secretary general of the United Nations and chancellor emeritus of the
UN University for Peace, suggested the idea of recognizing Peace
Pilgrim's life work for peace by having a life-size bronze statue of her
walking placed on the grounds of the University. Instead of honoring
military generals, Muller has tried to honor and lift up the work of
those who have given their lives for peace." ... "Robert Muller
collected soil from Pennsylvania, the U.S. state of 'Brotherly Love',
and sand from Santa Barbara, California, from the shores of the Pacific
Ocean, the 'Peaceful Ocean', to sprinkle at the feet of Peace Pilgrim's
statue on the day of the statue's dedication. He encouraged others to
join him, bringing soil from around the world, as prayers for world
peace.")
- SGI Quarterly
- An article written by Muller (so not independent) published in an
publication which doesn't even get a mention in passing on the
publishing organisation's article.
- All in all, I see no evidence of his notabily sufficient to persuade
me that I was wrong to nominate this for deletion. Others may feel
differently, which is why we have this community discussion to make the
decision, based on the consensus. And now, after 39 hours awake, I
really must get to bed! Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 22:09, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Hello PhantomSteve,
Please Keep. I posted the new,
updated information on the Robert's page for you to see. Please have a
look to see if it is acceptable from your point of view. If not, what
changes you suggest? There are tens of thousands of websites on the Net
referring to Dr. Muller. It is enough to google with the search term
“Dr. Robert Muller” (in quotation marks) to see that (447,000 results).
Some of those websites refer to other people. I checked the first ten
pages. More than 60% of them refer to Robert Muller we are talking about
here. Your opinion so far was based on incomplete info. It is not your
role to search for the information yourself. That's understandable. I am
convinced though that you will change your opinion based on this new
info, simply because the notability of a person with tens of thousands
websites referring to him can't be denied. As for the article in
Wikipedia I am doing my best to improve it according to the Wikipedia
requirements. I will appreciate very much help and any and all
constructive opinions to improve it further, from people like you, who
know much more how the Wikipedia works than I do. Thanks for your time.
Kaczdan (
talk) 17:28, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Keep. Besides being very popular (tens of thousands of websites referring to him) Dr. Muller meets the following notability criteria:
- He is a person significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded.
- He has received a well-known and significant award or honor (UNESCO
Prize for Peace Education, Albert Schweitzer International Prize for the
Humanities, Eleanor Roosevelt Man of Vision Award, Honored by the New
York Open Center for his "Lifetime Dedication to World Peace and Global
Education").
- He has been nominated for another significant award or honor (was a
candidate as a global citizen in 1996 for the post of Secretary General
of the United Nations )
- He has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the
enduring historical record in the field of world peace (Co-founded the
University for Peace in demilitarized Costa Rica and began his active
retirement from the UN as the first Chancellor of the University).Kaczdan (talk) 17:30, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
-
- Please do not vote more than once. Only one vote per user is allowed. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 02:43, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
I added some external links (below) to the article with more information on the life and work of Dr. Robert Muller
Kaczdan (
talk) 19:37, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
-
- None of these are appropriate sources. Please read WP:RS in order to find out what kinds of sources we consider acceptable here. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:11, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
- Weak keep. Looks borderline notable from RS coverage. Article is poorly sourced though. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:11, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
In my opinion the sources are reliable. They may not be mainstream,
but they are not extreme, either. Not being mainstream doesn't make them
unreliable. I have always believed, too, that Wikipedia is here to
reflect the world community as it is, not only what is accepted and/or
promoted by the mainstream media.
Kaczdan (
talk) 02:37, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
I fully agree with Phantomsteve that the article, as it was on 20:15, 11 May 2012 (UTC), qualified for deletion.
The article has been rewritten to meet the criteria set by Wikipedia. It is a completely different article now.
- Postscript: Besides the reasons listed in my post on May 17, Dr. Muller meets another notability criteria:
He has been nominated multiple times for a significant award or honor:
He was nominated multiple times for the Nobel Peace Prize.Kaczdan (talk) 02:44, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
-
- Comment Having quickly looked through the article as it now
is, I am still not convinced that Muller meets the criteria for
inclusion. The sources on the whole appear to be either from press
releases or from organisations directly connected with Muller - or they
merely mention him in a list of names. A couple of the sources consist
primarily of an interview with Muller which, though interesting, is
effectively self-promotion/press-release-ish. For clarity, I still feel
this article should be deleted. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 21:25, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Dr. Muller's notability can't be denied (he meets several
notability criteria,
as indicated in my previous posts), the references are there to confirm
that the facts listed in the short info about him are true, and the
external links are there to shed more light on Dr. Muller's life and
personality.
Kaczdan (
talk) 16:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Kaczdan (
talk) 17:27, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
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More details on First Lady Delete & Robert Muller proposed delete
06:29, 11 May 2012 Seraphimblade
(talk | contribs)
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